Puppy Growing Pains

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Puppy Growing Pains

Postby TimJ » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:30 pm

Anyone here have any experience with panosteitis?
My GWP was fine today but this evening when I took him out to do a little retrieving I noticed he had a slight limp. I figured he stepped wrong on his right front leg so we took it easy. After laying down for a while on the lawn he barely wanted to get up. Later on he needed help getting up on the couch to sleep.
I've read and heard it comes on fast, can it happen this fast? About 3 hours from first barely noticeable limp to being very uncomfortable.
I thought maybe he stepped on a bee at first but there is no inflammation. He doesn't react much to me handling that leg but he doesn't want to put it down now when he stands. A few hours ago he was running on it with that slight limp.

He is 5 months old and has been growing legs like crazy. I wondered if this can happen in GWP... I guess it can. We were just at the vets yesterday to pick up some stuff and for him to get weighed. He was perfectly healthy and showed no pain then.
Looks like another vet visit might be in his future.

Tim
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby TimJ » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:44 pm

BTW He is 38 lbs, not fat at all and his feed is Nurtisource Large Breed Puppy.

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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:21 am

Did he have X-rays?
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby TimJ » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:02 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Did he have X-rays?


No, this just showed up late yesterday and I was wondering if that was even an option with how quickly it came on.
He's much better this morning but still was not totally comfortable going up and down steps. Maybe its just a sprain but he has done that before and wasn't that immobile.

I'll watch him close. If he starts to act like that again I'll give my vet a call.

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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby hicntry » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:23 am

Pano is also called wandering lameness because it appears to move from leg to leg. If you notice your dog limping on another leg(s) it is a pretty sure thing. Just keep the dog away from a lot of exercise for a couple of months and it should outgrow it. You don't usually see it until about 7 mo but I have seen it a bit later more so than earlier, depends on the growth rate.
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby orhunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:29 am

I think it's just time to wait and see before spending a bunch of money on X-Rays etc. Limit his exercise for a couple of days.

One thing I'd recommend is getting him off puppy food and on to a high quality adult food with a 26/16 (protein/fat) content.
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby TimJ » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:05 am

The food he is on now is 26/14. I think most of the higher quality puppy foods now are aimed at slower growth.

I will keep him a little less active but with a pup use to running and retrieving every day that might be difficult. I wonder if swimming is easier on them?

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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby ryanr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:05 am

TimJ wrote:The food he is on now is 26/14. I think most of the higher quality puppy foods now are aimed at slower growth.

I will keep him a little less active but with a pup use to running and retrieving every day that might be difficult. I wonder if swimming is easier on them?

Tim


Yes, I think just as it is for human joints, swimming is great exercise for dogs and is easier on their joints too.

Like many an athlete with an injured knee I spent much time in the pool swimming laps to rehab my leg.
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby mtlhdr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:33 pm

My shorthair had a pretty bad bout when he was about 4-5 months old and growing like a weed. It came on really fast from no signs to incredible pain within an hour or so, and oh the howling like he was being gutted alive. I had x-rays done, and if I had to do it over again I wouldn't pay for them. You may consider some anti-inflammatories if the pup is really hurting. Try to limit exercise. The pup will want to push himself when he's feeling good and that's when the pain will flare up. We had it affect 3 out of 4 limbs. After doing a ton of reading, I came to the conclusion that a high quality large breed puppy food was the way to go, in particularly because of the low concentrations of calcium and other minerals (typically much lower than adult food).

Another thing to consider is Lyme Disease. Often the symptoms are similar (tenderness, "wandering" lameness (moving from leg to leg)). You might also consider a SNAP test if you're around ticks.
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby TimJ » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:27 pm

Thankfully no Lyme around here yet.

Thanks all. I have been reading a lot on it today and checking with some others. Doesn't seem like there is much to do other then manage the pain and keep exercise to a minimum, yeah that will go well with a pup.

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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby orhunter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:43 pm

Managing pain? Might be a bad idea. The pain is what will help keep the dog quiet.
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:02 am

orhunter wrote:Managing pain? Might be a bad idea. The pain is what will help keep the dog quiet.


Yeah, let the dog hurt instead of managing his behavior. Great plan... (Where's the sarcasm smiley)
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby hicntry » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:19 am

orhunter wrote:Managing pain? Might be a bad idea. The pain is what will help keep the dog quiet.


+1 for sure. Pain is natures way of slowing things down so they can heal "naturally". Take the pain away and what is the dog going to do? Uncommon sense really.
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby orhunter » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:21 am

Something else about pain/inflammation medication. Inflammation is natures way of healing, increasing blood flow through the formation of capillaries or dilation of existing ones. It isn't necessarily part of the actual injury. Stuff that reduces inflammation, increases healing time by reducing the body's natural ability to heal its self. Man or dog, anti-inflammatories aren't the wonder drugs we've been taught to believe. This is especially true when dealing with bone or connective tissue injuries. Growing pains have a lot to do with connective tissue.
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Re: Puppy Growing Pains

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:49 am

orhunter wrote:Something else about pain/inflammation medication. Inflammation is natures way of healing, increasing blood flow through the formation of capillaries or dilation of existing ones. It isn't necessarily part of the actual injury. Stuff that reduces inflammation, increases healing time by reducing the body's natural ability to heal its self. Man or dog, anti-inflammatories aren't the wonder drugs we've been taught to believe. This is especially true when dealing with bone or connective tissue injuries. Growing pains have a lot to do with connective tissue.


Its not that simple - Inflammation in the acute phase may be adaptive, but not only do we NOT have a diagnosis is this case, the condition we are discussing is a chronic condition. To recommend pain as an acceptable method of exercise restriction is archaic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20641004
J Bone Miner Res. 2011 Jan;26(1):113-24. doi: 10.1002/jbmr.185.
Fracture healing is accelerated in the absence of the adaptive immune system.
Toben D1, Schroeder I, El Khassawna T, Mehta M, Hoffmann JE, Frisch JT, Schell H, Lienau J, Serra A, Radbruch A, Duda GN.
Author information

Abstract
Fracture healing is a unique biologic process starting with an initial inflammatory response. As in other regenerative processes, bone and the immune system interact closely during fracture healing. This project was aimed at further elucidating how the host immune system participates in fracture healing. A standard closed femoral fracture was created in wild-type (WT) and recombination activating gene 1 knockout (RAG1(-/-)) mice lacking the adaptive immune system. Healing was investigated using micro-computed tomography (µCT), biomechanical testing, and histologic and mRNA expression analyses. Biomechanical testing demonstrated a significantly higher torsional moment on days 14 and 21 in the RAG1(-/-) mice compared to the WT group. µCT evaluation of RAG1(-/-) specimens showed earlier mineralization and remodeling. Histologically, endochondral ossification and remodeling were accelerated in the RAG1(-/-) compared with the WT mice. Histomorphometric analysis on day 7 showed a significantly higher fraction of bone and a significantly lower fraction of cartilage in the callus of the RAG1(-/-) mice than in the WT mice. Endochondral ossification was accelerated in the RAG1(-/-) mice. Lymphocytes were present during the physiologic repair process, with high numbers in the hematoma on day 3 and during formation of the hard callus on day 14 in the WT mice. Expression of inflammatory cytokines was reduced in the RAG1(-/-) mice. In contrast, expression of anti-inflammatory interleukin 10 (IL-10) was strongly upregulated in RAG1(-/-) mice, indicating protective effects. This study revealed an unexpected phenotype of enhanced fracture healing in RAG1(-/-) mice, suggesting detrimental functions of lymphocytes on fracture healing. The shift from proinflammatory to anti-inflammatory cytokines suggests that immunomodulatory intervention strategies that maximise the regenerative and minimize the destructive effects of inflammation may lead to enhanced fracture repair.
© 2011 American Society for Bone and Mineral Research.
PMID: 20641004 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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