Help!

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Help!

Postby bigmike86 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:39 pm

18 month old DK took off after a rabbit at my friends cabin in the shenandoah valkey and we figure he covered about 15 miles before someone picked him up and called me to come get him. 36 hours later he is now more lethargic than i have ever seen. This worries me because when we found him yesyerday he seemed fine. Anyone have any advice? Is a vet trip in order or is he just whiped out from his adventure
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Re: Help!

Postby ryanr » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:47 pm

It very well could be that he's just whipped but a trip to the vet probably isn't a bad idea. If he's still lethargic in the morning or his condition worsens I'd definitely get him to the vet ASAP.

My Labrador once covered at least 20 miles overnight (a trucker spotted him 11 miles away in the middle of the night.) He was back by morning but then literally didn't move for a good 24+hrs. He even ate lying down. He was about 2yrs old at the time.
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Re: Help!

Postby wrangler1 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:20 am

If he is eating and drinking I wouldn't worry. Take his temperature and make sure he is drinking. If he is not or get worse than maybe he needs to see the vet.
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Re: Help!

Postby bigmike86 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:47 pm

Ok thanks guys. Sorry i freaked out for a minute. He is finally back to normal now. He was drinking and eating so i waited it out and he woke up vey energetic the next morning. I have just heard a few horror stories of dogs gettig out and drank some bad water or got into some poison somewhere. Thanks for the advice
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Re: Help!

Postby Doc E » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:24 pm

Glad all is well.
Now it's time to work on "HERE" ("HERE" means HERE).



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Re: Help!

Postby blue04 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:59 pm

An e-collar wouldn't hurt.
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Re: Help!

Postby Doc E » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:04 pm

blue04 wrote:An e-collar wouldn't hurt.


You and i might or might not agree.
How would you go about doing this ?



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Re: Help!

Postby blue04 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:19 pm

If you're asking how I'd teach recall with the e-collar, the short answer is I wouldn't. I'd teach recall with a check-cord, then once I was convinced that the dog understands the command, I'd overlay the e-collar. But first, I'd do collar conditioing using commands the dog already knows.

I don't know this dog. But I suspect that at 18 months old, this dog may already know the recall command and may be pretty solid on it without distraction (IE: a running rabbit). If that's the case, the e-collar will provide a way to correct his refusal of the command, without having to have him drag a check cord all the time. If not, it's a start from scratch situation with teaching recall.
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Re: Help!

Postby Doc E » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:53 am

blue

We are pretty close here.
Except for collar conditioning on other tasks first.
A large number of us Lab Guys actually use "ecollar to HERE" first. Often as young as 4 months of age.



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Re: Help!

Postby ryanr » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:40 am

Here and Whoa arguably seem to be the two most important commands for dogs. My Labrador definitely knew what here meant when he decided, at about 12 months or so, that he could ignore it while out running fields. I invested in an e-collar and the very next time he ignored "Here" I hit him (vibrate only) with the collar just as he turned to run. He froze, I said "Here" again and he hesitated and as he looked ready to run again I hit him again but with stimulation (low setting) this time. All 95lbs of him came charging back to me. By the third recall he was barreling back to me without any use of the collar.

I kept the collar on him for several months and kept practicing obedience commands with as many of the typical distractions I could find, especially other dogs and animals. It didn't take long and I was completely confident I had control off-leash in all situations. Made for a much better dog and owner relationship.
Last edited by ryanr on Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help!

Postby 3drahthaars » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:33 am

Just a couple of thoughts:

First, having a continental breed you may or may not wish to efficiently hunt fur (rabbits) with your pup. So, regardless of how you train you may wish to think the process through.

Second, a recall command is part of the collar conditioning, so you’ll be fine with teaching then reinforcing “HERE”. But, for hunting the stationary command is probably best for the true versatile dog.

That being said, there is absolutely no command that I know that suits either hunting or safety better than “HALT”. It is a verbal command for the dog to go immediately to the "down" position with its head on the ground between its two front paws, and this is traditionally overlapped with the triller end of a double whistle (which most of the DD, DK, etc. guys carry religiously). Acme makes a nice plastic one with a synthetic pea that works better than the traditional horn whistles with a cork pea (the cork seems to always stick).

I believe that there is an article on the JGV-USA website by Steve Kohlman that outlines the process for training HALT. The command is used in Germany for a number of situations, primarily when hunting hare to keep the dog from the chase so that it doesn’t get shot. But, it is also used to stop a dog from getting killed by a vehicle, since they hunt close to highways in some cases.

And, when you can jackknife a dog to a down/halt you have COMPLETE control!

I didn’t do a very good job on this for my first 3 DDs, but I started halt at 3-mo on my new pup, and now without distractions she downs on the trill whistle in the field. I have my whistle on a lanyard attached to my Jaeger leash, and I take the leash with me every time that I take my dog out, so both are available to me at ALL times. And, I practice the command every time I take my pup out. Eventually, I'll reinforce it with an e-collar.

I hope this helps… otherwise the alternative is to flat out break your pup on anything that you don’t wish it to chase (deer, rabbits, coons, cats, etc.).

Good luck,

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Re: Help!

Postby ryanr » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:19 pm

It helps me, that's for sure. I definitely want to hunt fur with him and just have the ability to call him off something if need be. I'm actually regretting teaching sit (it was a major part of that puppy class I was in) instead of just Whoa now because I've been starting his Whoa training and a few times he's sat for it.

Regarding the e-collar, right now I plan to start using it to reinforce some obedience commands that he chooses to ignore when he's in the mood to do so. Then when I try to go to him to correct him he'll run and quite frankly I can't catch this little speed demon, even in the house sometimes. Would you consider this an advisable approach?

Overall he's a good friendly dog that seems to want to please most of the time but oh does he ever love to test me. He's 5 months old now and really starting to expand his range. I want to keep him safe off-leash.
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Re: Help!

Postby blue04 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:55 pm

Doc E wrote:blue

We are pretty close here.
Except for collar conditioning on other tasks first.
A large number of us Lab Guys actually use "ecollar to HERE" first. Often as young as 4 months of age.


Different strokes for different folks. Depending on the development of the individual dog, I often start them on the e-collar young. My last pup started collar conditioning at 4.5 months. But by that time he already had a basic understanding of "here", "whoa", "sit" "kennel", "heel", and a few other commands on leash. So it was no problem to overlay the e-collar corrections and eventually replace the check-cord with the e-collar. Sounds like we're more alike than different.

ryanr wrote:Regarding the e-collar, right now I plan to start using it to reinforce some obedience commands that he chooses to ignore when he's in the mood to do so. Then when I try to go to him to correct him he'll run and quite frankly I can't catch this little speed demon, even in the house sometimes. Would you consider this an advisable approach?


I would combine a check-cord and the e-collar for corrections for a week or so, to get the pup used to the stim and to get the point across that the e-collar stim is the same as a pop on the check-cord. Then I'd take the check-cord off in a controlled environment (fenced in yard), and switch to just e-collar stim for corrections. If that goes well, you can proceed with off-leash work in other areas. Some dogs will freak out and bolt the first time they feel the e-collar stim, but most don't. Most dogs will either comply with the command or run to the handler and try to sit on your feet because they're not sure what just happened. But I like to have a check-cord on a new dog the first couple of times I introduce the e-collar. I don't want dogs running to the horizon the first time they feel stim.

ryanr wrote: I'm actually regretting teaching sit (it was a major part of that puppy class I was in) instead of just Whoa now because I've been starting his Whoa training and a few times he's sat for it


This is debatable. I've heard people say not to teach sit before or during whoa training, but I almost always teach sit before or at the same time that I'm teaching whoa. In fact, one of the puppy training drills I use combines "heel", "come", "whoa", and "sit" into the same drill. I have had dogs try to sit on whoa, but I think that's more about the dog not understanding what's expected. If the dog has previously been praised for sitting and you give a "whoa" command that the dog isn't sure about, he just figures "well, he was happy with me last time I sat, so let's try that". I've NEVER had long term issues with dogs sitting down on point, regardless of which order I taught the commands in. IMO, a dog that persists in trying to sit on whoa in the presence of game either lacks prey drive, or has had way too much pressure applied during the initial whoa training.

You might consider doing "walking whoa" with a half-hitch around the pup's waist. I think this is the best way to start a young dog learning whoa, and it will prevent the pup from sitting when given the whoa command.

Good luck!
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