Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

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Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby ryanr » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:59 am

OK, my DD pup's going on 15 weeks old now. Last week I started switching him from Purina Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy to Dr. Tim's Kinesis formula. I started it Tuesday night by adding just a handful to his current food (I feed him 1-1/2 cups food 2X day.) On Wednesday morning I added about 1/4 cup. He really seemed to like the new food. Wednesday evening I decided to make it a 50/50 mix. Thursday morning it was 75/25 in favor of the Dr. Tim's. Again, he really seemed to enjoy it. Stools were good each day. Thursday evening we got home late after I locked my keys & cell phone in my truck I fed him almost all Dr. Tims' that night (That night his stool was just a little soft at the end of doing his business.) Friday morning he woke me up to go out to the bathroom at 5AM. It looked like he did both (I saw him squat) and I put him back in his crate to catch another hour's sleep. Shortly after 6Am I awoke and could smell it right away and I opened his crate and was greeted to a big ol' soft "bomb" of crap. I took him outside and he had diarrhea twice. I fed him again with the Dr. Tim's and he was hungry for it (and naturally was quite thirsty.) Later he had another soft stool followed by diarrhea 2X again. I let him out of his crate at lunch and he had a little more soft stool. Friday evening I fed him all Purina Pro Plan, same thing Saturday morning and later his stool was firm. That evening I fed him all Pro Plan except for a small handful of Dr. Tim's. Stool was fine that evening as well Sunday morning (only a handful of Dr. Tim's both Sunday morning & evening.) He's had good stool since but I've only given him a handful of Dr. Tim's with the Pro Plan each time.

It should be noted that during this same week he drank out of a nasty, muddy puddle of water (On Wednesday evening) and it was 24hours later his stool first became soft and then diarrhea badly. He also ate some animal turds (unfortunately deer crap is like candy to him.) My first thought when this started was that he was a little sick (the weekedn before he had a touch of a runny nose) or maybe giardia? Then I started to think I got to overzealous in switching his dog food from the Pro Plan to the higher quality Dr. Tim's. I'm thinking in order to know for sure whether it was illness or incompatible food I will again increasingly introduce the Dr. Tim's but on a much slower timeframe like over 10-14 days. Any thoughts you guys might want to share?
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby orhunter » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:55 pm

I've seen two things I'd avoid in any dog food in the two products I looked at, Canola oil and sugar beet pulp.
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby jmr12 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:18 pm

I feed Pro Plan...That is all either of the dogs have had. I fed both of them P.P. Puppy for a year..then switched to the adult. I cannot say that their stools have always been consistant, but they have never had an accident in the house or their kenell. Drinking standing pond water makes both of them poop almost instantly. If they have not been out of the house for a couple of days, and we either go hunting or a big run, they poop alot. Seems like exercise, and getting their insides working, makes them go more frequent. They get NO table food. That is not to say they don't cruse the counters, or pick up something spiled on the floor. My wife decided that potato soup would be a good treat for our older dog. I took her for a walk about an hour later, and she vomited it up. [The dog, not my wife]. I have never run out of food, knock on wood, to where I would have to feed another brand. If Pro Plan is working, and the dog is healthy, why are you switching?
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby blue04 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:46 pm

Could be the pond water. It could also be that you switched him to the new food too quickly. Mixing the old food with the new is the right thing to do, but I'd argue that making the switch in two days is too fast. I think it makes more sense to phase in a new food over a week or so.
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby marysburg » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:29 pm

Watch for fever, lethargy, bloody or mucus stools. He may have picked up something bacterial or protozoal from that puddle water, and the change in food might be irrelevant. A vet visit might set you at ease.
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby orhunter » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:14 pm

When ever I've had to deal with a digestive problem, I put the dog on a bland diet to rule out food. Ground turkey and Basmati rice plus the usual yogurt, cottage cheese, fried egg. They have always snapped out of what ails 'em right away. Worth a try.
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby ryanr » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:16 pm

Jmr: I'm attempting to switch because I want to feed him the highest quality food I can afford.

Thanks Marysburg, I have a previously scheduled vet appointment already set for this coming Friday. He seems to be fine now so I'm figuring I can wait until then but I'm watching him closely. I kinda think I was way to overzealous in introducing the new food .
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby hicntry » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:33 pm

:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: Because the dog has a soft stool???? I would be more concerned that the dog let it go in the crate....bears change to eating berries...they get a soft stool. Changes of diet just does that. Dogs are funny....put, a fresh bowl of water next to a puddle and they will drink from the puddle every time. Mine drink from brown cattle ponds all the time....big deal......you changed the dogs food.....don't fall apart over it.
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby ples0017 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:08 am

I do the same as orhunter, but I will take them off food for 24 hrs and let everything go through and then start with plain rice and slowly mix in their food
Good luck, and I have yet to find a worse way to wake up than that smell and dread of what is about to happen
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby Dr Tim » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:45 am

I would suggest too much was fed as it was done on an equal volume to volume change over. This food is more rich and has a much higher digestability, so typically you feed 20% less on a volume basis. I am betting overzealous transition.

Beet pulp is added to diets to firm a stool up by allowing the colon to function properly in that the colon removes water. Too much stuff getting to the colon(overfeeding) overwhelms the colon and the water is not removed before the stool needs to come out of said dog.

When a dog has soft stools, and still has a good appetite, one way to determine if the food is ther reason is to give 1/2 the amount normally fed for 3 days and see what comes out of the dog. If it firms up, overfeeding is generally the case, regardless of the brand. If it is still soft, the food is probably the culprit and doesn't jive with that dog. All other conditions not being in play, such as parasites, etc., of course.
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby ryanr » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:29 pm

hicntry wrote::crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: Because the dog has a soft stool???? I would be more concerned that the dog let it go in the crate....bears change to eating berries...they get a soft stool. Changes of diet just does that. Dogs are funny....put, a fresh bowl of water next to a puddle and they will drink from the puddle every time. Mine drink from brown cattle ponds all the time....big deal......you changed the dogs food.....don't fall apart over it.


No, the puppy had diarrhea, numerous times, not just soft stool. There's difference between the two. Yes, I was concerned that the puppy (again it's not even 15wks old yet, far from being a dog) had his first accident in the crate since the first night I brought him home. But I was concerned more about his health not just the fact he went in the crate (he was howling and scratching to get out, I just didn't wake up in time and get there) I didn't fall apart over it, I just expressed what happened looking for some feedback.

Overnight it happened again the same way as 4 days ago with me up about every 1-2 hours to take him outside because he had diarrhea. He also didn't eat dinner (I just thought maybe he was full of treats from puppy class.) In the morning he didn't touch breakfast but I decided to load him in the crate and head to work. Stopped for coffee and was heading down the road again when he began howling and scratching. I couldn't find a good place to pull over soon enough and he had another bout of diarrhea.

At that moment I called my vet who was closed, so I took him to another vet my vet recommends when they're closed. Guess what? He's got some kind of parasites (Giardia was negative) so he's taking Panacur, Amoxycillin, and something else. They said whatever they saw on the slide was moving so fast they were having trouble identifying it. I have him on a bland diet of chickand rice too for several days.
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby hicntry » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:26 pm

Ryan, relax....I am not the enemy. Just trying to get you into the real world of dogs.

(I just thought maybe he was full of treats from puppy class.)


First mistake is the treats. Treats are for trick training.

Guess what? He's got some kind of parasites (Giardia was negative) so he's taking Panacur, Amoxycillin, and something else. They said whatever they saw on the slide was moving so fast they were having trouble identifying it.


You buy that? The vet prescribing medication for things they can't identify?? Let me take a stab at this....Panacur....as in Fenbendozole or something very close, which is for worms....they don't move that fast Ryan. Amoxycillin....to cover anything else....and something else for who knows what.??? You changed the pups diet in a couple of days.....of course it has the runs. How much did the vet charge for this education??? Plus medication?
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby ryanr » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:51 am

Yes, I buy it because I trust that the veterinarian that actually examined him has the education and experience to know what to do much more so than some internet expert that's across the country does. Even human doctors will prescribe certain meds to treat certain symptoms without knowing exactly what is it is, so please stop pretending you know more than the vet does in this case. It's likely not from the food, he hasn't been on the other food since a tiny handful Saturday night. He didn't eat either for 2 straight meals and if he is still having diarrhea every 1-2 hours throughout the night it's very likely a sign of more than just switching foods. I've had dogs before this pup.
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby GRIFF MAN » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:54 am

hicntry wrote:Ryan, relax....I am not the enemy. Just trying to get you into the real world of dogs.

(I just thought maybe he was full of treats from puppy class.)


First mistake is the treats. Treats are for trick training.

Guess what? He's got some kind of parasites (Giardia was negative) so he's taking Panacur, Amoxycillin, and something else. They said whatever they saw on the slide was moving so fast they were having trouble identifying it.


You buy that? The vet prescribing medication for things they can't identify?? Let me take a stab at this....Panacur....as in Fenbendozole or something very close, which is for worms....they don't move that fast Ryan. Amoxycillin....to cover anything else....and something else for who knows what.??? You changed the pups diet in a couple of days.....of course it has the runs. How much did the vet charge for this education??? Plus medication?



Hicntry,

If you can't make a statment in a productive way then don't post anything !!

The guy is a new pup owner and is concerned. Get off his A$$ and go fight with Kyle........it's getting old reading the same $hit all the time !
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Re: Problem due to switching dog food or something else?

Postby hicntry » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:46 am

Your absolutely right Griff.....I gotta learn to ignore some things. Sorry Ryan....hope you get the problem straightened out.
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