Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association Tests

Moderator: Moderator Pack

Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby birdawgs » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:15 pm

I have been looking over Navhda test records and see the term " Used bird on land or in water " Does this mean mutilate?
birdawgs
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby mtlhdr » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:22 pm

This is specific to the water portion of the test. It means the dog wouldn't swim after a bumper so they had to use a bird to entice it to swim. There's a mandatory deduction for using a bird in the water.
User avatar
mtlhdr
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:15 pm
Location: Northern CA

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby birdawgs » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:01 pm

Ah thanks for clearing that up for me.
birdawgs
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby Deuce » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:48 pm

Rules are rules though, a dog that swims for a bird can earn a maximum of 2 and can still pass if everything else comes out right. A question was asked about phrasing related to the test reporting, not about whether a dog should pass if a bird has to be used.

Quite the first and second post...
User avatar
Deuce
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 846
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:31 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby andyz » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:25 pm

I'm a newbie and haven't been through a NAVHDA test, but I have always wondered what sort of desire is sought to be measured by throwing a bumper in the water. Is it the natural desire to retrieve or at least to chase after stuff, i.e. before any formal retrieve training? I have always assumed that a hunting dog's desire is best measured by how it reacts to game. For example, if two dogs exhibit the same level of interest in jumping into water to get to a bird, but one is less incline than the other to chase a bumper, is it really accurate to say that the dog that's meh about bumpers truly has less desire than the dog happily chases them? Asked another way, is the bumper chaser more likely to be the dog that is willing to swim around in cold water trying to chase down a diving, crippled duck, or swim across the river to retrieve the bird that came down on the far side? I don't intend to sound like I'm pre-judging. I'm curious what others think. My former dog was a retriever and a water enthusiast. My current pup has a much higher prey drive, but at this point (5 mos) not nearly as fond of the water.

As far as I know, the VJP doesn't have a water component. Why is that?
andyz
Started
Started
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:58 pm

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby migratesouth » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:19 pm

From the NAVHDA testing booklet:

"A truly versatile hunting dog must possess the desire and confidence to swim.....The retrieve is immaterial - the importance here is whether or not the
dog has the desire and self confidence to swim twice."
Ripsnorter's Indiana Jones (Indy) NA 108 Prize 1 :: http://imgur.com/a/fzQAO
http://www.tarheelnavhda.com
User avatar
migratesouth
Started
Started
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:11 pm

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby ckirsch » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:40 pm

I've had several pups that, for whatever reason, were initially reluctant to swim but later turned out to great water retrievers. I'll agree that all else being equal, a pup eager to get in the water is preferable, but I've learned not to get too concerned over a young dog that is a little slow to swim.

I might be one of those clueless NAVHDA owners, but DoggyDoc wouldn't last long at the chapters I test with, as with his attitude shortcomings he'd probably get thrown in the lake himself.
User avatar
ckirsch
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:55 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby DrahtsundBraats » Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:56 pm

Testing is about giving information about the level of ability....not about winning or losing...yes or no. Far more useful to a breeding community.
DrahtsundBraats
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:41 am

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby Quilldog » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:25 am

You also need to take in to consideration weather and distraction and the age of the pup maybe the pup seen live birds out there and that most test do the pointing first so the dog just came from a test portion that had live birds and now you want the dog to retrieve a bumper. Just a point not saying my dog did bad he passed the field portion extremely fast and the water perfect on both parts along with only having him in water three weeks before the test all the dogs I hunt or help train will retrieve whatever I throw even a 10lb weight. Instead of bashing dogs help the owners train or expose their dog the right way just my opinion.
Quilldog
Started
Started
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:08 pm

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:18 am

Once my dog discovered ducks she would not retrieve bumpers. She's a fine hunting dog and I don't hold it against her that she's not a lab in her retrieve drive.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
User avatar
Misskiwi67
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1808
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby Calvinator » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:09 am

It's not uncommon for some dogs that have retrieved more birds than bumpers from water to not have much interest in bumpers. DoggyDoc is just trying to push buttons with abrasive comments.
User avatar
Calvinator
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby Quilldog » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:50 pm

That is why I said Instead of bashing dogs help the owners train or expose their dog the right way just my opinion. lol quick and easy to bash judge and talk smack but as a member and for non members heck even lab owners I help everyone I can. In my mind I think that's what we should do that's what went wrong with so many clubs in turned into a me vs them.
Quilldog
Started
Started
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:08 pm

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:07 am

My HZP 191 dog, with a 12 search behind the duck, wouldn't enter the water until about 7 months of age. She was born in November and could not be exposed young because everything was frozen, and she was very cautious about entering the water. If you want to judge a pup so harshly so young, more power to ya, but I can't imagine what I'd have missed out on if that was my only judgement of natural ability.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
User avatar
Misskiwi67
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1808
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:13 pm

At what age do you think dogs should take an NA test? My dog had DAILY exposure as we have a pond 50 yds from the house. She probably wouldn't enter the water for a dummy period until after the trained retrieve. She will do anything for a duck. Dummies are not hunting and even at a young age my dog damn well knew it.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
User avatar
Misskiwi67
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1808
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Phrase " Used bird at or in water "?

Postby Densa44 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:24 pm

A bit of a different point of view here. Our club needs all the members/volunteers that we can get. If it has 4 legs and barks I can teach the dog to go into the water for a dummy or just go in for a swim. Sometimes I tell the handler to hook up the pup and take them in! The people have all done it and the dogs have done the water work at the NAVHDA test. Were I live there is usually just one chance at a NA test because the next closest Chapter is in Montana and runs the week after ours.

We have a "no dog left behind policy" and if you check our web site Wild Rose NAVHDA you can decide for yourself if you can teach a pup to swim.

My father always said that if God hadn't rushed through things in 6 days he could have made us better people. One thing he suggested that God should have done was to make willful ignorance painful.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
User avatar
Densa44
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:10 pm

Next

Return to NAVHDA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests